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Re: [新聞] NBA》帕波維奇:白人過太爽 要重視黑人

作者 kikijuice
看板 NBA
時間 2018-02-14 10:31:17
※ 引述《poorsin (貧窮正弦波)》之銘言: :美國一年一度的「黑人歷史月」(Black History Month)又到了,除了美國以外,英國、 :加拿大、荷蘭這些曾經買賣黑奴的國家也會每年挑一個月份來反省他們的歷史錯誤。以黑 :人球員為主力的NBA自然更是大力宣傳。 :一向關心政治議題的馬刺隊總教練帕波維奇(Gregg Popovich)說:「這聯盟是由很多黑人 :組成的,紀念黑人月是應該的。我們必須要時時刻刻提醒自己,美國是一個帶有嚴重種族 :歧視的國家,這是整個國家的罪惡。」 :這次的黑人月引起包括警察在內的不少人反彈,也令帕波維奇不滿,「我每次都會聽到有 :人表示不想再談論這個黑白議題,但我們必須正視問題。身為白人,你在美國就擁有巨大 :的特權,在政治、教育、社交、經濟、法律上享有絕對優勢。」 :在美國的大學SAT測驗(學術水準測驗考試),黑人考生可以獲得加分230分,中南美裔可以 :獲得加分185分,亞裔考生則會被扣50分,這是教育系統對有色人種的補償。退伍軍人也 :可以獲得加分,說起來只有亞裔比較倒楣。 :儘管身處共和黨擁有優勢的德州,帕波維奇仍以敢言著稱,他之前也曾表示不排除從政。 :他在上次美國總統大選獲得25張選票,選民自行在選票寫上帕波維奇的名字然後蓋章(副 :總統是Tim Duncan)。 :2018年02月14日 07:54 中時電子報 盧品青 :http://www.chinatimes.com/realtimenews/20180214000836-260403 :------------------------------------ SAT是全國性質的考試 如果直接因為種族差異就在原始分數上面刪改 篤定引起軒然大波 不可能到今天才由中時電子報領先全球報導 實際上的情形是原始總分沒有被更動, 但招生的時候各校會因為彼此需求不同, 用不同的 標準去衡量不同種族之間的分數曲線. 亞裔在學業方面的表現, 以平均值而言, 明顯較其 種族優秀, 所以如果每個學校都只用原始分數當指標, 會嚴重影響其餘種族受到高等教育 的機會均等. 但就常春藤(Ivy League)收學生的標準, 由於他們收的是菁英中的菁英, 用 常理想就知道不可能因為種族而做額外加減. 這篇文章是我用 Asian SAT score deduction為關鍵字搜尋到的第二篇文章 底下附上原文出處, 並僅翻譯重點部分 Los Angeles Times, 2015 Feb. 21 https://goo.gl/nul4XM In a windowless classroom at an Arcadia tutoring center, parents crammed into child-sized desks and dug through their pockets and purses for pens as Ann Lee launches a PowerPoint presentation. 在Arcadia教育中心的一個沒有窗戶的教室裡, 家長們擠在兒童課桌椅上, 從他們的口袋和 包包中翻出筆以便在待會Ann Lee的報告中做些筆記. Her primer on college admissions begins with the basics: application deadlines, the relative virtues of the SAT versus the ACT and how many Advanced Placement tests to take. 這份報告講的是大學入學招生的一些基本概念: 申請期限, SAT跟ACT這兩種考試的差別和優劣, 以及學生到底要參加多少AP(大學先修課程 )的考試. 註: AP比一般高中的課程還要難, 而學生通過AP考試可以在大學抵免相對應的學分. Then she eases into a potentially incendiary topic — one that many counselors like her have learned they cannot avoid. “Let's talk about Asians,” she says. 然後Ann不疾不徐的談到了一個當局很難迴避的燙手話題:亞裔入學的優勢. Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column. 此次報告採用的是普林斯頓大學的一份研究(2004): 如果僅用原始SAT分數作為基準來篩選學生 種族(包含外表與文化認同)會對大學入學產生多大的影響? 這篇研究裡使用了bonus(加成)的字眼來比喻, 對學校而言, 考生的種族在計分時給了多 大的加成? African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says. 非裔美人加成230分 She points to the second column. “Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.” 拉丁民族加成185分 The last column draws gasps. Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission. 身為亞裔美人, 你的成績會以少50分被看待, 意即你必須在考試方面表現的明顯更加 傑出才能入學. “Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says. 亞裔比較難考上大學嗎?他們需要比較高的分數才能錄取嗎?是. “Zenme keyi,” one mother hisses in Chinese. How can this be possible? 一位母親以中文嘶聲說道:怎麼可以? 以下原文非常長, 各位自行酌量閱讀 College admission season ignites deep anxieties for Asian American families, who spend more than any other demographic on education. At elite universities across the U.S., Asian Americans form a larger share of the student body than they do of the population as a whole. And increasingly they have turned against affirmative action policies that could alter those ratios, and accuse admissions committees of discriminating against Asian American applicants. 大學入學對很多亞裔家庭而言造成了很深的焦慮, 因為他們在這方面花的心力遠超過其 他部分. 在美國大多數的菁英大學裡, 亞裔學生佔的比例遠超過亞裔人口在美國總人口 裡的比例. 而他們更團結起來對抗有可能改變現狀的政策, 並指控入學委員會歧視亞裔 考生. That perspective has pitted them against advocates for diversity: More college berths for Asian American students mean fewer for black and Latino students, who are statistically underrepresented at top universities. 亞裔學生大學錄取率倘若越高,黑人或拉美裔入學的比例就會更低, 而且他們原本在頂 尖大學的比例就很低了 But in the San Gabriel Valley's hyper-competitive ethnic Asian communities, arguments for diversity can sometimes fall on deaf ears. For immigrant parents raised in Asia's all-or-nothing test cultures, a good education is not just a measure of success — it's a matter of survival. They see academic achievement as a moral virtue, and families organize their lives around their child's education, moving to the best school districts and paying for tutoring and tennis lessons. An acceptance letter from a prestigious college is often the only acceptable return on an investment that stretches over decades. 對亞裔家庭而言, 學業上的進展基本上被視為一種核心價值. 很多家庭根本就把他們的 生活圍繞在小孩的教育上. 把小孩送進名校對他們而言是十幾年來唯一被認可的投資 Lee is the co-founder of HS2 Academy, a college prep business that assumes that racial bias is a fact of college admissions and counsels students accordingly. At 10 centers across the state, the academy's counselors teach countermeasures to Asian American applicants. The goal, Lee says, is to help prospective college students avoid coming off like another “cookie-cutter Asian.” “Everyone is in orchestra and plays piano,” Lee says. “Everyone plays tennis. Everyone wants to be a doctor, and write about immigrating to America. You can't get in with these cliche applications.” 中間一大段原本我沒附的現在補上 Like a lot of students at Arcadia High School, Yue Liang plans to apply to University of California campuses and major in engineering — or if her mother wins that argument, pre-med. She excels at math, takes multiple AP courses and volunteers, as does nearly everyone she knows. Being of Asian descent, the junior says, is “a disadvantage.” The problem, she says, is in the numbers. Asian families flock to the San Gabriel Valley's school districts because they have some of the highest Academic Performance Index scores in the state. But with hundreds of top-performing students at each high school, focusing on a small set of elite institutions, it's easy to get lost in the crowd. Of the school's 4,000 students, nearly 3,000 are of Asian descent, and like Yue are willing to do whatever it takes to gain entrance to a prestigious university. They will study until they can't remember how to have fun and stuff their schedules with extracurriculars. But there's an important part of their college applications that they can't improve as easily as an SAT score: their ethnicity. In the San Gabriel Valley, where aspirationally named tutoring centers such as Little Harvard and Ivy League cluster within walking distance of high schools, many of them priced more cheaply than a baby-sitter, it didn't take long for some centers to respond to students' and parents' fears of being edged out of a top school because of some intangible missing quality. Helping Asian American students, many of whom lead similar lives, requires the embrace of some stereotypes, says Crystal Zell, HS2's assistant director of counseling. They are good at math and bad at writing and aspire to be doctors, engineers or bankers, according to the cliches. She works with her students to identify what's unique about them — and most of the time, that's not their career ambitions or their ethnicity. “Everyone comes in wanting the same thing,” Zell said. “But that's because they don't know about anything else.” If a student wants to be an engineer, she makes sure to show other options. She sends affluent students to volunteer in poor neighborhoods. Branch out from tennis, or chess club, or taekwondo, she tells them. Learn a language other than Chinese. Avoid writing your essay about your parents' journey to America. Instead of just handing students a violin or a piano and saying pick one, Zell says, HS2 offers them a buffet of interests and hobbies, encouraging students to pick something that excites them. Lawrence Leonn, 16, is grateful for the help. He doesn't think race or ethnicity should matter, but he believes it will. “I don't want to be racist or anything,” Lawrence said. “ Everyone works hard and struggles. But there's this feeling that it's going to be harder for us.” Complaints about bias in college admissions have persisted since at least the 1920s, when a Harvard University president tried to cap the number of Jewish students. In November, a group called Students for Fair Admissions filed a suit against Harvard University for admissions policies that allegedly discriminate against Asian Americans. The group cited the 2004 Princeton study and other sources that offer statistics about Asian Americans' test performance. 1920年代開始就有類似的聲音出現:一個哈佛教務長試圖限制猶太學生的總量 這篇文中引用的Princeton study也在2014年11月的訴訟中被引用, 指稱大學入學政策 歧視亞裔人種. At the University of Texas at Austin, an affirmative action policy that allows admissions committees to consider the race of prospective applicants has been argued all the way to the Supreme Court. (The policies were upheld by a lower court, but that court's decision was voided by the Supreme Court. Another court upheld the policies and another appeal is pending.) 在德州大學類似的案例也被吵上高等法院 Those who defend “holistic” admissions policies insist that considering a broader range of variables ensures that all applicants are judged fairly. And the Princeton study Lee refers to has been widely criticized by academics who argue that it relies too heavily on grades and test scores to draw conclusions about racial bias and that the data the study uses are too old to be relevant. Ann Lee引用的這篇Princeton Study被很多學者批評: 1. 單純使用學校成績與考試分數作為種族偏見的指控太過武斷 2. 這篇研究(2004)用的資料已經過於老舊 Still, anxiety over racial admissions rates is peaking as cash-crunched public universities increasingly favor high-paying out-of-state and foreign students at the expense of local applicants of every ethnicity. A 2014 bill that would have asked voters to consider restoring race as a factor in admissions to public California colleges and universities sparked multiple public protests and scathing editorials in Chinese newspapers. The bill, Senate Constitutional Amendment 5, was shelved last year. Lee says that she usually tries to at least mention arguments in favor of diversity at her free college seminars. She mentions how the black student population at UCLA has declined precipitously and how student bodies at elite universities probably shouldn't be 100% of Asian descent. When she looks to see the response, she sees mostly slowly shaking heads. “It's really hard for me to explain diversity to parents whose only goal is getting their son into Harvard,” Lee says. That same ethic causes parents and students to agonize over which box, if any, to check on the race and nationality section of the application. One parent asked Zell whether it would help to legally change the family name to something more Western-sounding. Last year, a rumor that Harvard University would stop accepting any more Asian American students from San Marino High School spread like a trending hashtag. Mollie Beckler, a counselor at San Marino High School, says that Harvard never imposed such a rule. School counselors are continually trying to dispel myths like these, she says, if only in hopes of slightly lowering the huge stress students shoulder because of their intense focus on elite schools. “The feeling of failure they get from trying to reach such high standards,” she said, “is very concerning to us in the counseling world.” Only a few of the San Gabriel Valley's tutoring centers confront the ethnic admissions issue head-on. Jamie Aviles, a counselor at the ACI Institute, doesn't teach ways to overcome perceived racial bias, she says. But she and many other counselors do agree on at least one thing. As Aviles puts it: “It sucks to be a kid in the San Gabriel Valley.” 總歸而言, 這篇報導引用的是2015年LA times的報導, 而LA times的報導引用的paper 已經是2004年的study. 而分數的加減只是該篇paper的估計值, 並非實際每所學校都採 用. 而當篇paper也已經被眾多學者criticize:只把成績當成唯一參照就直接定義種族偏 見根本過度武斷. 但我想記者只想找聳動的東西抄, 把文章看完根本太為難你. bias/racism一定有, 但是不是你寫得這麼直觀. 你這種程度的記者寫出來的東西建議永久在ptt禁言 屢次在報導後面摻入個人揣測 從指稱ray allen為同性戀開始幾乎有60%以上的報導是廢文 對, 我說的就是中時電子報, 盧品青 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 223.141.19.37 PTT 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/NBA/M.1518575482.A.EF0.html
1FDespairile :應該說 扣掉特權入學 如果要控制人種入學比例 02/14 10:34
2Fchinhan1216 :所以還是歧視阿 02/14 10:35
3FDespairile :最後確實某些人種會比較吃虧沒錯吧? 02/14 10:35
4Fiamaq18c :不是直接扣分 算是控制比例 亞裔讀書能力太強真衰XD 02/14 10:35
5Frockyue :你只要google亞裔稅 SAT就可以了 時間還比較新 02/14 10:36
我要找的是這篇報導引用的source 我只想電他 不想找最新的文章
6Fsd2567 :不是 太強 是只讀書 02/14 10:36
7FKreen :不要怪規則,怪你的族群太優秀。 02/14 10:37
8Fmagamanzero :不是太強 而是把資源都花在讀書 02/14 10:37
9Fsd2567 :相對其他族裔 亞裔對單純的學業成績更重視 所以理 02/14 10:37
10Fsd2567 :所當然成績更好 02/14 10:37
11Fpttpepe :太強也不行 XD 真是很搞笑 02/14 10:37
12Fmagamanzero :問題是 人家花了一堆時間讀書 理該獲得相應的報酬 02/14 10:38
13Frockyue :不能這麼說 有人是連各方面都好 但還是進不去 02/14 10:38
14Fmagamanzero :結果因為人家太強 扣人家分數...也不知道該怎麼說 02/14 10:38
15Fsd2567 :然後這出現新問題就是 不限制亞裔會壓縮其他白人入 02/14 10:39
16Fsd2567 :學可能 02/14 10:39
17Fmagamanzero :是說你豪當初運動有加分嗎... 02/14 10:39
18FKreen :https://goo.gl/KMHrjP (忽略) 也可以看一下。 02/14 10:39
請看下方連結
19FKreen :https://goo.gl/n5gb3i 沒縮好連結,原PO幫我改一下 02/14 10:41
20FKreen :對的,王瑞恩那篇。 02/14 10:43
21Frockyue :https://goo.gl/jEfMaU 02/14 10:43
22FATand :也是,在小賓賓時覺得看到亞洲面孔的比例比在路上高 02/14 10:44
23Frockyue :當然SAT是不可能減分的 只是標準可能不一樣 02/14 10:45
24FBlazeleo819 :這種規定真的很莫名 02/14 10:46
25Fwhite75724 :Zenme keyi 02/14 10:47
26Fiamchyun :亞裔家庭花較多的心力在教育 錄取較多本來就正常 02/14 10:48
27Fiamchyun : 算什麼歧視?應該降低白人比例才對 02/14 10:48
28FBlazeleo819 :啊,這篇是講提出亞裔會扣分論點的研究本身就有問題 02/14 10:51
29Fsd2567 :等台大都東南亞人讀 台灣也一樣會有相同的處理方式 02/14 10:51
30Fsd2567 : 這跟國防有關 02/14 10:51
31Fmagamanzero :台灣不會的 台灣政府最怕外國人說三道四 02/14 10:55
32Fdjviva :看完了, 推 02/14 10:57
33FTownshend :我不懂的是既然其它族群不那麼介意小孩是否上名校 02/14 10:58
34FTownshend : 那名校都讓亞裔入學哪有差 反正美國社會不吃名校 02/14 10:58
35FTownshend :那一套 02/14 10:58
36Fkikijuice :亞裔對於教育的執著本就近乎病態 02/14 10:58
37Fkikijuice :文章裡面有一段我沒翻:每個人都彈鋼琴 每個人都打 02/14 10:58
38Fasdxxg5 :樓下幫我打電話問書豪 02/14 10:59
39Fneedshe520 :喔喔,原來如此! 02/14 10:59
40Fkikijuice :網球 每個人都想當醫生 每個人都下象棋學跆拳道 02/14 10:59
41FTownshend :反之其它族裔如果也覺得學歷重要 那公平競爭的考試 02/14 10:59
42FTownshend :考輸亞裔就哭哭實在很難看 02/14 10:59
43Fkikijuice :教育本身是為了找出小孩的興趣跟專長 不是建立一套 02/14 10:59
44Fkikijuice :病態的SOP然後就把小孩套進去 這點我認同 02/14 11:00
45Ficou :這種邏輯莫名奇妙,亞裔成績好是因為投注更多心力 02/14 11:00
46Ftwsoriano :美國不吃名校那一套? 平行時空嗎 XD 02/14 11:01
47Falonli :亞裔是對"考試"執著... 02/14 11:01
48Ficou :你不投入更多心力反而怪亞裔 那最多資源的白人要不 02/14 11:01
49Ficou :減200分? 02/14 11:01
50FCMPunk :這本來就狗屎 亞裔愛讀書 非裔靠運動或音樂 難道運 02/14 11:01
51FCMPunk :動員有保障亞裔? 02/14 11:01
52Ficou :對考試執著又怎樣?考試制度和白人名校的選學生方式 02/14 11:01
53Fou123 :這篇認真推推 02/14 11:02
54Faeolusbox :就是因為美國吃名校那套又考不贏亞裔只好這樣搞阿 02/14 11:02
55Ficou :難道是亞裔決定的嗎?亞裔有用不正當方式入學? 02/14 11:02
56Ficou :亞裔專注考試是種通病沒錯 但這裡就是歧視沒啥好說 02/14 11:03
應該這樣講 我覺得LA times這篇文章點出的並不只有歧視 Ann Lee本身有提出一些在美國教育看到的現象 而這些現象的確是不應該被忽略的 鄉民裡面受美國高等教育的一定也不少 關於Ivy League到底有沒有分數偏差這點應該有人可以實際證實 中段大學做這種操作是有可能的 但頂尖大學沒必要替學科能力不足的人加分
57Fmicbrimac :寫了那麼多 就真的歧視阿..努力考得好好像自己活該 02/14 11:04
58Ftiuseensii :規矩是美國人訂的,亞裔積極配合拿高分叫做病態呵呵 02/14 11:04
59Ficou :沒錯 遊戲規則白人定的 結果亞裔表現好就轉彎 顆顆 02/14 11:05
60Fkazake :推記者一堆都是垃圾 02/14 11:07
61Fmicbrimac :你投入了資源 結果沒得到回報 反而把你的回報全拿走 02/14 11:11
62Fmicbrimac :有人連這種都能護航 真的超屌 02/14 11:12
63FDerLuna :不念書的人反而怪認真努力念書的人 美國真是沒道理 02/14 11:12
64Fmicbrimac :以後可以叫七呎以上的球員只能蹲著搶籃板 02/14 11:14
65FTownshend :那nba都沒有黃人 這是種族騎士 怎麼不來個黃種人保 02/14 11:15
66FTownshend :障名額? 02/14 11:15
67Fejnfu :對啊,那NBA怎麼沒有亞裔保障名額… 02/14 11:16
68Frunning711 :某些記者的文章真的要禁掉 由網友來翻外電都強太多 02/14 11:16
69Frunning711 :這些人只想用聳動標題騙點閱而已 02/14 11:17
70Fkevinh0718 :不過沒有媒體亂報這些網友也不會主動翻譯,拋磚引匝 02/14 11:20
71Fkikijuice :NBA一年的active player大概400人上下 怎麼保障 02/14 11:22
72Fkikijuice :就如同John Hopkins不可能保障名額給黑人一樣啊 02/14 11:22
73Fpaulphil :說真的,如果都是有繳稅的美國人還要分什麼裔。也難 02/14 11:22
74Fpaulphil :怪美國的種族問題越來越嚴重。不是大熔爐嗎? 02/14 11:22
75Fkikijuice :sample size就不等大了 02/14 11:22
76Fkikijuice :歧視一定有 而且永遠不可能彌平 但絕對頂尖的環境 02/14 11:23
77FsickNick :頂大沒在跟你看種族啦 02/14 11:23
78Fkikijuice :裡面是不可能允許偏見的 你看寶山現在敢收波波嗎? 02/14 11:24
79Fkb2411c :瞎爆,亞裔相對弱勢在身體素質上,優勢在學業上。好 02/14 11:24
80Fkikijuice :有BG當然另計啊 但是你怨BG又有什麼用 我們就沒有咩 02/14 11:24
81Fkb2411c :不容易能夠靠學業出人頭地,結果嫌我們功課太好要 02/14 11:24
82Fkb2411c :先扣分。那亞裔在申請體育相關的機會時要不要給加 02/14 11:24
83Fkb2411c :分呢?噁心到不行= = 02/14 11:24
84Fs901133124 :在別人國家就只能用他們的規則玩,這樣才能保住自己 02/14 11:25
85Fs901133124 :國家人民的面子呵呵 02/14 11:25
86Fiamchyun :我只覺得這種白痴政策只會更加深種族歧視 02/14 11:26
87Ffatoes :西方人從古至今就是最會玩弄(制定或修改修改)遊戲規 02/14 11:26
88Ffatoes :則,華人從古至今也是最會玩弄(搞懂練熟或是鑽漏洞) 02/14 11:26
89Fkikijuice :你何時覺得美國想要減少歧視了XD 02/14 11:26
90Ffatoes :遊戲規則 02/14 11:26
91Ffatoes :講難聽點西方人就是話都他們講規則都他們訂 02/14 11:26
92Ffatoes :華人就是最奴 02/14 11:26
93Falantsuei :理性來說其實這樣寫也不能直接指出中時有錯,因為實 02/14 11:29
94Fiamchyun :黑人有因為加分更努力讀書嗎?有加分花時間在更多 02/14 11:29
95Fiamchyun :體育競技 黑人學科加分術科體能贏你練習時間也比你 02/14 11:29
96Fiamchyun :多 最後就是黃種人連努力的優勢都不見了 02/14 11:29
97Falantsuei :際上每所學校都有自己的一套標準,而sat只是其中的 02/14 11:30
98FChiya0911 :認真推 就算白整天歧視不是一兩天的事也得有原意 02/14 11:30
99Falantsuei :一環,所以他這樣講並沒有什麼問題,因為畢竟就是因 02/14 11:31
100Falantsuei :為每個族群有不同的出發點,而且各校也都有自己的考 02/14 11:31
101Falantsuei :量,但總體來看,如果不只看成績或有一個公平標準的 02/14 11:32
102Falantsuei :規範(如考試),那就有難免有私心之類的情形發生, 02/14 11:33
103Falantsuei :中時不過舉其中一個例子來表示其標準與我們對“公平 02/14 11:34
104Fkikijuice :他那樣寫理所當然被電爆 他的敘述叫做無條件加分 02/14 11:34
105Fkikijuice :SAT本身就沒有無條件加分這種事情 你寫了就是造謠 02/14 11:34
106Fhsuaba :SAT超簡單的 我兩個哥哥考不上台灣國立大學的 最後 02/14 11:35
107Fhsuaba :都上美國五十大 02/14 11:35
https://i.imgur.com/Ke68AYZ.jpg 這邊有一張2015年SAT數學項目的分數
亞裔真的是屌電其他人種XD
108Fkikijuice :各個學校要怎麼自由心證那是各家的事 你寫文不找好 02/14 11:35
109Falantsuei :”的標準不同,不能否定這個事實存在的大前提…但話 02/14 11:35
110Fkikijuice :reference 那就是活該被鞭啊 02/14 11:36
111Fkikijuice :更何況連讀者都可以找到reference 結果你連copy-pas 02/14 11:36
112Fkikijuice :te都不願意付上"洛杉磯時報"這五個可以輕而易舉幫你 02/14 11:36
113Falantsuei :回來,學習不完全是從正確中學習,從社會或歷史中這 02/14 11:36
114Fkikijuice :增加公信力的方式 那不是活該討打 02/14 11:36
115Falantsuei :些“錯誤”也可以學到不少,更何況還有文化的因素要 02/14 11:37
116Falantsuei :考量,這不也是出國唸書更能增加視野的一個好機會嗎 02/14 11:38
※ 編輯: kikijuice (223.141.19.37), 02/14/2018 11:41:10
117Fnosense :所以他媽只因為是中時 就想模糊歧視的事實 02/14 11:41
118Falantsuei :不是吧,他並沒有寫sat“無條件”加分,這可能是你 02/14 11:43
119Falantsuei :過度解讀,這只是說各學校對不同族群的成績有不同的 02/14 11:45
120Fhazel0093 :連歧視都能護航 民主黨粉品質zzzz 02/14 11:45
121Fkikijuice :你自己看清楚原文吧 你的敘述我不再回應 02/14 11:46
122Falantsuei :衡量標準…的確他們也發現亞裔的可能點數都點在了k 02/14 11:46
123Fkai3368 :亞裔 加油 02/14 11:46
124Falantsuei :書上了… 02/14 11:47
125Fhazel0093 :記者斷章取義有問題 但是作亞奸幫其人人種說話問題 02/14 11:47
126Fharry881210 :說到底就是白人怕失去統治地位 02/14 11:47
127Fhazel0093 :更大 他 02/14 11:47
128Fkikijuice :你是A眼 B眼還是C眼看到我支持歧視 加油好嗎 02/14 11:49
129Fkikijuice :學會閱讀是一件很棒的事情 02/14 11:49
130FPatlaborGao :考輸就限制比例 那運動比賽怎麼不去限制黑人比例 02/14 11:51
131FPatlaborGao :亞裔比賽跑也可以直接減10秒嗎 02/14 11:52
132Fvn509942 :記者就是居心叵測 亂捏造事實造成話題 02/14 11:54
133Falonli :看推文還蠻有趣的就是了 突然回想起中生納健保 02/14 12:00
134FJormungandr :2長春藤名校也常會為種族甄選好嗎 你以為哈佛會成갵 02/14 12:04
135Fnuclearbomb :和NBA無關 02/14 12:05
136Fmagamanzero :按照這標準 NCAA名校 應該黑人-50 黃種人+150? 02/14 12:05
137Fmagamanzero :豪哥每場保底至少上10min 02/14 12:06
138FJormungandr :美國大學是有俱樂部性質的 02/14 12:06
139Fgoodman543 :專業給推 02/14 12:07
140Fgoodman543 : https://i.imgur.com/3ploTtS.jpg 02/14 12:08
141Fpantient :能比記者智商更低的,永遠只有左膠 02/14 12:11
142FRamonJames :記者資訊有誤 但種族入學政策一直有反彈是真的 只是 02/14 12:24
143FRamonJames :會有亞裔出來檢討自己人 02/14 12:24
144Fbaseball1388:亞裔在美扣50分 美裔來台享有許多福利 02/14 12:26
145Fnuturewind :這個規範看起來就是為了保護某些種族有固定配額,排 02/14 12:39
146Fnuturewind :擠亞裔所找的理由啊…你拿這篇說這不是歧視…立論有 02/14 12:39
147Fnuturewind :很大的問題吧… 02/14 12:39
148Fkikijuice :你是A眼 B眼還是C眼看到我覺得這不是歧視 加油好嗎 02/14 12:42
149Fcoiico :應該說 歐美的觀念要培養的精英不只是要會讀書 所謂 02/14 12:45
150Fcoiico :的扣50分是指你至少在成績上多50分才能彌補其他方面 02/14 12:45
151Fcoiico :的不足 02/14 12:45
152Fcoiico :我不認為這是歧視只是文化觀念的不同 02/14 12:46
153Fkanetakusan :那怎麼樣才能算歐美菁英?跟我富二代朋友小孩一樣學 02/14 12:48
154Fkanetakusan :馬術和參加滑雪隊嗎? 02/14 12:48
155Fvvvvaaaa :不足的部分是指膚色嗎,這也能護航笑死人 02/14 12:49
156Ftokko :阿就真的有歧視不是…結果你到底打了什麼臉? 02/14 12:49
157Fvvvvaaaa :還沒考試就先扣你分,然後還補槍是因為你人種問題 02/14 12:50
158Fvvvvaaaa :各方面都不足啦,所以才扣你分你多加油念書是這樣嗎 02/14 12:51
159Fvvvvaaaa :這還不叫歧視喔 02/14 12:52
160Fcoiico :簡單說 不管是企業或是政治 實際領導者一定是功課最 02/14 12:52
161Fcoiico :好或是最聰明那個?或是藝術戲劇有成就者都是那些功 02/14 12:52
162Fcoiico :課很好的? 02/14 12:52
163Fx111222333 :護航的難看喔 02/14 12:52
164Fcoiico :其實不只是美國 現在台灣推甄也不是只看功課成績了 02/14 12:53
165Fnuturewind :原po我可不想跟你爭這種無謂的點,我主要是說你為了 02/14 12:53
166Fnuturewind :墊那個記者,用心翻這篇文章跟引出出處想講記者移花 02/14 12:53
167Fnuturewind :接木曲解,但文章裡面確實是有對於特定人種保護主義 02/14 12:53
168Fnuturewind :的現象啊,我主要是要講這個點~ 02/14 12:53
169Fvvvvaaaa :SAT跟藝術運動其他領域成就到底有什麼關係,你在跳 02/14 12:54
170Fvvvvaaaa :針什麼?難道SAT會要你上台跳舞嗎?我只是考個試就先 02/14 12:55
171Fnuturewind :你要這樣延伸去講這個記者全錯全腦補的話,其實也有 02/14 12:55
172Fnuturewind :點牽強啦…針對這篇來說 02/14 12:55
173Fvvvvaaaa :預設立場說是因為我亞洲人,所以我就只會念書,其他 02/14 12:55
174Fvvvvaaaa :領域都不足,這不叫歧視? 02/14 12:56
175Fcoiico :這是解釋的問題 內文寫的很清楚了 這些學校並不會因 02/14 13:03
176Fcoiico :為你是亞裔就直接扣你50分 而是統計出來的結果顯示 02/14 13:03
177Fcoiico :亞裔學生要彌補其他不足(音樂 運動 推薦 其他優異表 02/14 13:03
178Fcoiico :現 ) 必須在SAT上多50分才有優勢。 一個是直接標準 02/14 13:03
179Fcoiico :另一個是統計分析結論 要分清楚 02/14 13:03
180FIronicKnight:怎麼看起來就是種歧視… 02/14 13:04
181Fcoiico :奇怪 這不是大家一直嘴砲的台灣學生只會死讀書 怎別 02/14 13:08
182Fcoiico :人為了避免這弊端 建立不同標準就不能接受? 02/14 13:08
183Fj54353 :本來可以進哈佛結果只能進杜克當然不能接受 02/14 13:26
184Fpeter308 :錄取應該是亞裔會跟亞裔比 而不會跟白人比 02/14 13:40
185Fpeter308 :所以會出現白人整體分數比你低很多但他錄取你卻落榜 02/14 13:40
186Fpeter308 :這是我之前申請美國學校 了解的狀況 02/14 13:41
187Fpeter308 :如果大家比分數來決定錄取與否那白人黑人基本上沒戲 02/14 13:43
188Fkanetakusan :總感覺亞裔跟亞裔比,大部分名額還是被中國富二代或 02/14 13:46
189Fkanetakusan :是學霸拿走 02/14 13:46
190FcallTM :關你屁事? 你有要念嗎 02/14 13:48
191Fmask82 :這樣幫忙護航XD 02/14 14:30
192Fpoorsin :認真推 02/14 14:33
193Ftingx2 :推推推!!! 02/14 14:35
194Fkaiserfhu :不認同 02/14 14:47
195Fpinkygiveme :啊本來你想要到頂級強國生活,又沒錢又不是學霸,如 02/14 14:57
196Fpinkygiveme :果沒有專長,哪有什麼資格? 02/14 14:57
197Famyjoey :推個 02/14 15:11
198Flovecmgirls :很多人搞不清一個事實,美國入學本來就是不只看SAT 02/14 15:25
199Flovecmgirls :而且這個多民族國家,各大學入學本來就是要控制族群 02/14 15:26
200Flovecmgirls :比例,尤其美國是白人建立的國家,各大學當然會保障 02/14 15:26
201Flovecmgirls :白人的利益,再加上美國大學經費很大部分靠捐款 02/14 15:27
202Flovecmgirls :保障愛捐款族群的利益也是必然的,而亞裔不愛捐 02/14 15:28
203Fmagamanzero :問題是他們嘴巴說沒種族歧視阿 XD 02/14 15:30
204Fhaviccy :中時電子報, 盧品青 進來抄囉 02/14 15:38
205Fversailles94:但實話白人不靠歧視,下個世紀ㄧ定變到社會底層, 02/14 15:45
206Fversailles94:白人真的太懶了 02/14 15:45
207FOuterLander :https://www.instagram.com/p/BfJGb2IFpHN/ 02/14 15:58
208Fhkb :感謝你找的資料跟翻譯,但明顯就是歧視 02/14 16:22
209FCishang :結果一樣 02/14 18:02
210FCishang :還是歧視 02/14 18:02
211Fsading7 :這就是歧視有什麼問題? 02/14 18:03
212FCishang :簡單講就是婦女保障名額換成黑人拉丁保障名額 02/14 18:03
213FCishang :拿到運動場上以後美國各種學生運動比照這個制度保障 02/14 18:05
214FCishang :亞裔比例 讓一堆弱雞亞洲人上去打NCAA 你就知到哪裡 02/14 18:06
215FCishang :有問題 02/14 18:06
216FRaskolnikov :尼哥自助餐啊 之前一群黑人抗議哈佛的黑人學生太少 02/14 18:07
217FRaskolnikov :應該多開放名額 不然就是歧視 02/14 18:07
218Fchenlansue :就...還是因為種族而差別待遇呀 02/14 18:45
219Fkreator666 :其實 看起來這的確是蠻直觀的歧視 02/14 19:06
220Fkreator666 :亞裔話語權的問題 02/14 19:06
221Ffever105 :推 翻譯很好。中時記者唬爛什麼sat直接加分扣分,根 02/14 20:30
222Ffever105 :本離譜。 02/14 20:30
223Flillard000 :可以 02/15 03:59
224Fkanetakusan :去頂級強國也有不一樣的活法啊,大家擠破頭想進top3 02/15 07:35
225Fkanetakusan :,我幾個朋友放寬自我要求去top10的大學,老實講我 02/15 07:35
226Fkanetakusan :是沒聽過那間,但在當地應該還是好學校,現在也是留 02/15 07:35
227Fkanetakusan :在美國工作 02/15 07:35
228Fkanetakusan :versail大說的不錯,我認識一個白人到30歲還沒做過 02/15 07:38
229Fkanetakusan :什麼正式工作,都是四處打打工。我會想去歐美也是生 02/15 07:38
230Fkanetakusan :活比較悠閒(去玩過而已,沒有長期生活過)XD雖然說我 02/15 07:38
231Fkanetakusan :我朋友覺得悠閒過頭了 02/15 07:38